tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-466093691926458332.post6804577109893025560..comments2023-04-07T10:27:50.934-05:00Comments on Xanboni: A sample ISI judging sheet, explainedAlexandrahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04087069977867729538noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-466093691926458332.post-43083796940574166282011-09-08T08:17:20.157-05:002011-09-08T08:17:20.157-05:00Well, to be clear, I know most coaches don't e...Well, to be clear, I know most coaches don't encourage improvising if there isn't a need. If skater grrrl does mess up but successfully covers it, she never gets congratulated by the coach. However, she doesn't get yelled at, either. (Usually. As long as she's been working hard up to competition date. If she's been slacking off AND has a lot of boo-boos, we don't do the "hug it all away" approach.) <br /><br />The goal is to do the program you're supposed to skate. However, in a worst case scenario - and everyone will have them - a program can be salvaged.josetteplank.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16790825543155685363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-466093691926458332.post-20924405152564972052011-09-08T08:12:51.922-05:002011-09-08T08:12:51.922-05:00"We always have a plan A (everything goes as ..."We always have a plan A (everything goes as planned), plan B (if you run behind) and Plan C (if you get to the end and need to do a little jig before you pose if the music still has a little left to go)."<br /><br />LOVE this! And yes, this sport really encourages kids to think on their feet. (Literally and figuratively, lol.) Now, in upper levels, you can't just toss in extra jumps the way you used to be able to in the 6.0 system (Midori Ito famously tossed in a 3Axel after she botched the first one) but yes, listening to the music and improvising within the rules is something that good skaters do all the time.<br /><br />It does take practice doing it in practice, though. Those kids that don't get right up from a fall during run throughs or who don't have a repertoire of "add-ins" aren't going to magically come up with them in competition. It took my daughter a long time to learn this. Once it was clearly put to her that she was given not one score, but 8 technical scores and that she could still place well after botching one or even two, she had an "Ah HA" moment. Now she fights for every element, even if she landed on her tush the one before. :-)josetteplank.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16790825543155685363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-466093691926458332.post-32637941090411914682011-09-08T07:35:14.285-05:002011-09-08T07:35:14.285-05:00Thanks for putting up the score sheets with an exp...Thanks for putting up the score sheets with an explanation like that.<br /><br />Now I understand why my daughter's coach puts each required element twice in her USFS basic skills program (missed one try and the other can still count). And also always follows a required element with a bit of choreography - so if my daughter falls there is time to get up - skip the choreography part and get back into her program at the required element. <br /><br />We also have in mental checkpoints along the routine where if she hears she is running behind she can ditch something (say skip the "falling leaf") and just go to the next thing so she will end on time. We always have a plan A (everything goes as planned), plan B (if you run behind) and Plan C (if you get to the end and need to do a little jig before you pose if the music still has a little left to go).<br /><br />A lot of this just comes down to smart coaching.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-466093691926458332.post-3181319894495272332011-09-07T15:12:52.624-05:002011-09-07T15:12:52.624-05:00This is an incredibly enlightening post. Thank yo...This is an incredibly enlightening post. Thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-466093691926458332.post-42834132879667392152011-09-07T08:20:33.016-05:002011-09-07T08:20:33.016-05:00Because of the judging system, we choose not to us...Because of the judging system, we choose not to use ISI as a replacement for USFS competitions. We use them as a fun supplement to USFS competitions. We will never again (after 2 unbelievable outcomes) enter a Freestyle # or Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum freeskate event. We only enter Spotlight or fun events like Interpretive. We are lucky because we live in an area where there are many local competitions to choose from, both ISI and USFS. Our family enjoys the ISI competitions for their fun and creativity.<br /><br />We know skaters who regularly enter ISI competitions, and consistently do well, but always finish poorly at USFS competitions. Some have decided not to enter another USFS competition because they think the judging is too harsh. I feel the judging is more consistent and valid for a competitive skater. It's important to keep in mind that ISI exists to promote recreational skating, therefore the fun events that the kids enjoy. USFS is all about competition and the judging system reflects that.MNsk8momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15447389918268739726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-466093691926458332.post-41875384870879656162011-09-06T19:08:32.193-05:002011-09-06T19:08:32.193-05:00Just ask anyone who ever fell on a required jump d...Just ask anyone who ever fell on a required jump during the short program at the Olympics.<br /><br />While ISI does make it as painless as possible, in the end, if you do not satisfy the rules and conditions of the competition, it costs you.Alexandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04087069977867729538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-466093691926458332.post-63776247442719669322011-09-06T18:21:42.024-05:002011-09-06T18:21:42.024-05:00The 0s are harsh. But I can tell you, when skater ...The 0s are harsh. But I can tell you, when skater grrrl got to Juvie level and got her first 0 because she recentered a combo spin, it was a lesson she never forgot.<br /><br />And it happens at the top levels, as well. I've seen it enough times at elite levels with a botched spin or something wonky in the footwork and an entire score is lost. It's heart-breaking, but there are no consolation prizes for elements not done with the IJS system.josetteplank.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16790825543155685363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-466093691926458332.post-14429295073348228742011-09-06T14:18:57.787-05:002011-09-06T14:18:57.787-05:00The narrow judging range makes it much harder for ...The narrow judging range makes it much harder for a single judge to manipulate an outcome, since on a 3-judge panel you can't just delete high and low, like they do on larger panels. If a judge could just put a skater at the bottom of a 10-point range, then there would be more judging shenanigans.<br /><br />These rules and standards are not designed to make it perfect. They are designed to keep the system as fair and even as possible.Alexandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04087069977867729538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-466093691926458332.post-58911144044163243992011-09-06T13:15:16.623-05:002011-09-06T13:15:16.623-05:00I agree that a missing element should receive 0, b...I agree that a missing element should receive 0, but setting a range of 7-7.8 is a bad idea, IMHO. I think each element should be judged on a scale from 0 to... whatever. Say, from 0 to 10. Then: <br />0 = missing <br />1 or 2 = barely attempted<br />3 or 4 = poor <br />6 or 7 = good <br />10 = perfect <br />something like this, where the difference between "missing" and "bad" is comparable to the difference between "bad" and "good". The first difference could still larger than the second, but not 9 times larger! <br /><br />Maria, mom of 2 skaters: FreeSkate 2 and SnowPlow SamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-466093691926458332.post-55554056221206804432011-09-06T12:41:13.487-05:002011-09-06T12:41:13.487-05:00The 0 penalty for an element that isn't perfor...The 0 penalty for an element that isn't performed seems harsh, but how else are you going to do it? This is where proper coaching is important. In a system where you are judged on required elements, you cannot grade an element that isn't performed. Trust me, it KILLS the judges when a good skater places poorly because of this, but it's not like people do not know what the system is. And judges will bend over backwards to avoid giving that penalty mark. You wouldn't believe some of the things panels I've been on have agreed are pivots, just to avoid that penalty mark.Alexandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04087069977867729538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-466093691926458332.post-37633978336098721312011-09-06T11:09:20.695-05:002011-09-06T11:09:20.695-05:00I also recently realized that there is another fac...I also recently realized that there is another factor that influences the outcome of a competition but actually has little to do with how good your skater is: namely, where the skater is at the given moment, relative to the competition levels. May be it is true more for USFSA than for ISI competitions. What I mean is that the competition levels (in USFSA) are pretty far apart. It often takes a year to progress to the next level. This past summer we had a dilemma about where to put my daughter: she grew out of No Test Level 1 (swizzles, wiggles, etc., no spins, nu jumps allowed - she had a good waltz jump and 1 foot spin, was working on more jumps and spins), but she was either still working or not even working on some elements you see in No Test Level 2 (they were not required but just allowed; but of course the top competitors were doing everything that is allowed). We decided that Level 1 was too low and too boring for her and put her into Level 2, with understanding that she'll just try to do her best but she had absolutely no chance of winning just because she was not there yet. She will be there in half a year, but just not yet. Of course, she came in last. But this doesn't mean that she is a bad skater! This means that the levels are too far apart, and it was impossible to find a good fit for her.<br /><br />Why did we go to this particular competition, you may ask? To make the long story short, we live in the middle of nowhere, and we don't have many competitions here, but we were near this competition during our summer vacation, so we decided to go there. <br /><br />Maria, mom of 2 skaters: FreeSkate 2 and Snow Plow SamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-466093691926458332.post-72275574639572321152011-09-06T10:52:09.751-05:002011-09-06T10:52:09.751-05:00Well, this is a really bad system, in my view. Her...Well, this is a really bad system, in my view. Here is why: setting a range of 7.0-7.8 for each element but giving a score of 0 for missed element means that the difference between a very well performed element and a very poorly performed element is 0.8, but the difference between a very poorly performed element and a missed element is 7.0, almost 9 times bigger! <br /><br />Think about this: what is better, do 8 elements perfectly and miss 1 completely, or do all 9 very poorly? I think the first should be better, but according to the above system the second competitor will win (the first will receive 8*7.8=62.4, and the second will receive 9*7=63). <br /><br />Maria, mom of 2 skaters: FreeSkate 2 and Snow Plow SamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com