Every time I fall for a student (and there have been a few I wanted to bundle up and take home), I start dreaming about how cool that will be when we get to her senior year in high school and I'm the one giving her the flowers at the spring show. (These kids are 4 or 5, mind you.) Every coach wants this.
While kids get attached to coaches, they tend to transition pretty easily (insultingly easily) from one to the next. It's the adults--both adult skaters and parents--who get convinced that they (or their child) can work with one coach and one coach only.
I've seen this manifest in parents who won't let kids take classes or seminars with another coach, even with a guest coach, because "oh, I only learn well from Coach Svengali."
This can become difficult if the coach's life changes and they can't coach you anymore. I've seen parents berate coaches for moving, switching rinks, and having a baby (what do you mean you won't be teaching for 6 weeks!).
As I said, coaches really like the idea of taking a kid from tot to the Olympics (think Brian Boitano and Linda Leaver), and especially at the recreational level you see this a lot. My daughter has managed to have the same dance coach (slowly morphing into a dance partner) from Preliminary through Internationals (she's on her fourth or fifth, I've lost count). But you need to let this happen naturally, and not out of misplaced ideals.
You stay with a single coach because you have a positive relationship, work well together and are reaching the goals you set. If you're not passing the tests, or doing well at the competitions, or learning the jump with that coach, then either change your goal (to I love this coach and don't care about that other stuff), or switch coaches.
And of course, you have to bring it up: what happens when parents believe only one person is qualified to coach their kid and the coach becomes self-obsessed, abusive, and capricious? I've seen coaches who have so convinced the kids and parents that they can never switch, that in lessons they ignore the kids or use abusive language and methods. The parents, and skaters, start learning that the choice is not Coach Svengali or Coach What-a-Relief, but Skate-Or-Quit. Quitting is always an option, but not because of my-way-or-the-highway coaching.
Sometimes you get lucky, and stumble onto a coach that really is the only coach for you. But make the choice for positive reasons.
Have you or your skater worked with the same coach over a long period?
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I have been with my coach for about 13 years - as long as I have been skating. I kind of lucked into a great coach, and I kind of was old enough to have a sense of who would be a good fit. The longer I keep skating, the more different coaching styles I see, and while I wouldn't say that he is the *only* coach I could work with, I would say that he is the right coach for me and that I won't switch if I can help it.
ReplyDeleteBut, I have seen a lot of coaches who convince the parents that they are the only coach who should be working with their children - going so far as to taking the skaters out for food and openly bad-mouthing the other coaches and their abilities. Basically forbidding the parents from letting their kids take lessons from anyone else. So far the parents have been a bit afraid to do anything, even though I have heard from several of her skaters that they want to change coaches. Should be interesting to see what happens in the next year or so...
My daughter loves almost every coach she has had a class with! It makes it extra nice that there are a lot of emergency back ups in case her coaches couldn't be at a comp.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, she has had the same private coach for years. There were some rough patches - she didn't seem to progress for awhile and then you hear other parents implying "if you switch coaches, she will learn faster because coach x has more experience." But my daughter was not discouraged by her progress - it was just me. (oops! must have been comparing skaters and timelines with that darn axel)
Later, her coach asked us to work with another coach on a regular basis. It has brought a new perspective to her skating. And I think the coaches like working together (it's a new relationship for us all).
You are right - I could change coaches every six month or year and my child would be just fine with the change. But she really loves both coaches on a personal level as well - why mess with that?
She and I read something about parents who change coaches like their underwear and my daughter said, "If you change too often you don't know who to trust." So as she continues to skate I make sure that the coaches she is involved with are deserving of her trust.~meg
Audrey Weisiger?? Brian Boitano's coach is/was Linda Leaver. I'm confused.
ReplyDeleteI agree that adult skaters get attached to their coaches -- I know I do. That said, I've been fortunate that the coaches I've had are secure enough that they are comfortable with me working with other coaches from time to time on specific issues or for a particular purpose.
My bad. That's what I get for relying on my memory instead of the google machine. Corrected.
DeleteWhat about the coaches who get too attached to a skater and have a hard time when that student leaves?
ReplyDeleteWe've had 2 coaches who haven't adjusted well to DD leaving. One hasn't talked to our daughter in more than 3 years (we left because that coach changed her availability and didn't have any available lesson times which worked with our work and school schedules, so we didn't have a choice). We thought we left on good terms and can't understand her behavior. She adored our daughter. I don't think she will ever change.
The other coach who is taking it badly we left about a year ago. DD wasn't progressing with that coach but that wasn't the reason we left. Ultimately we left the rink because of the poor management of the club and declining membership, not issues with the coach. This coach has not greeted DD in a year but we are still holding out hope that she will come around because she is more mature than the other coach. She also really enjoyed our daughter and I think she secretly hoped that DD would return to their struggling synchro team, which she coaches.
DD sees both of these coaches every week. It's uncomfortable for her, and she feels like she must have done something wrong to have made them mad at her. I think it affects her skating. I just keep telling her that she hasn't done anything wrong. If those coaches need to be mad at someone, they should express their anger to us (the parents who made the decision), not her. I also encourage her to greet them whenever possible and try to ignore their bad behavior. We put these coaches in positions of authority and it's hard for kids to understand that sometimes the adults they look up to behave badly too.
I know a skater whose coach didn't speak to her for 3-4 years after she left him. About 2 years after he relented, we found out he'd been fondling her as a child, so the silent treatment was just a different type of abuse. I say, f*ck 'em.
DeleteSince you mentioned Audrey, I'll say that I think there is a lot to be said for the team teaching approach that she fostered at Fairfax (there's a short video about it on icoachskating.com if anyone's interested).
ReplyDeleteMany of the competitive skaters here benefit from this approach; working with a jump specialist and a MIF specialist in addition to their head coach (who coordinates everything). Speaking from my personal experience, I love working with 2 coaches on a regular basis. As long as everyone's roles are clear, I think it's great for all involved and helps sidestep some of the issues you raise.
I recall reading that Linda Leaver did something similar with Brian - sending him in the summers to work with other coaches for specific purposes (figures, etc.)
This is a great, and smart, approach, especially for coaches like Audrey and Linda, who basically find themselves with an elite skater by default. Everyone learns together. It takes coaches with a mature, collegial approach to life, something that is sadly not ubiquitous in skating.
DeleteDS has been working with the same coach since group lessons. He has two other coaches working with him on specialties. They were added throughout the years as they were needed. Also, when head coach is out of town he can go to another coach at the rink for lessons to keep up his skills.
ReplyDeleteThere were times when we were not sure of the future. Would head coach move away? I have to admit it was pretty stressful because I think if that happened at that point in his career, DS would have quit skating.
He seems to have turned a corner though (older and wiser). He has said that he could work with a different coach should the need arise, and just knowing that is less stressful for me. It means that while he has an amazing relationship with his coach, he is not totally dependent as he once was, and if something ever happened (life changing events, or out growing the situation) that he would be able to continue skating.
He has not gone to many "famous" coaches or camps. We know of lots of kids who have. Coach has said and I tend to agree that improvement is a slow and steady thing. There are times and situations for seeing a "famous" coach. It can help boost confidence or just be cool to say you skated with an Olympian. But sometimes they can mess your technique up and you will have to unlearn it (not because it's wrong, but because the skater is not consistently training the same way). Or, more commonly, the skater lands their double _______ and then goes home and can't do it again.
Head coach does recommend certain camp experiences, and since it doesn't happen that often, we make sure to get DS to them. I am sure that if I wanted to take DS to different coaches and specialists, Head Coach wouldn't stand in the way (it's our money after all) However I find it simpler and less confusing to trust the team we have after all, what are we paying for if not their expertise! :)
If DS wants to make coaching change (as he thought about during this time when he was waiting...and waiting...and waiting to land his triples), it will be with the proviso that he look deeply into himself and make sure he is changing for the right reasons. Something along the lines of, Everywhere you go...there you are. Changing coaches is not the magic cure all. Sometimes it is necessary, but what a waste of time if it's not... Probably very old fashioned, but if it ain't broke...
I admit, I would love to see DS and Life long coach in the Kiss and Cry at Worlds someday. It would make a great story in this age of musical coaches. But I won't stand in the way of his progress to make this happen. It's sort of like skating...focus on what you can control, leave the rest alone.
I'm a little worried about the coach/friendship/obligation issues as an adult skater too. I have been taking "group" classes at the same time as the tots: my rink offers all levels at the same time, but I'm the only adult on Tuesday mornings, so my lesson comes during their practice session and vice versa, so the rink doesn't pay an extra coach for me. The same coach has been working with me for nearly a year. I like her very much and have learned a lot, but as she's had some family difficulties this last month, I've had several substitute coaches filling in -- and I think I might like their teaching styles better. I've never taken any private lessons from her, so I don't technically have any professional obligation to choose her when I'm ready to move to privates, but she's spent a lot of time with me and I think would be hurt if I chose to ask someone else to work with me. I can see privates in my not-too-distant future as a supplement to classes (I'm in FS4) as I start thinking about testing. My questions are: (1) can I ethically ask more than one coach for a trial private lesson, if I am up front with them both that I am trying to figure out what might be the best fit? and (2) From the perspective of a rink-assigned coach who has gotten to know a student well, what would be the best way to be approached and told that the student liked you a lot but was thinking of exploring some options for privates before making a decision? I don't want to hurt her feelings, but I also want to be sure I'm making the best choice for me, whatever I decide.
ReplyDeleteUntil you actually have a coach of your own (i.e. have established a skater-coach relationship -- group lessons don't count as you (clearly) get whatever coach you are assigned) you are under no obligations whatsoever. I would encourage you to have trial lessons with as many or as few coaches as you wish -- just be up front that it's a trial lesson. I've done this pretty much every time I've changed rinks and it's been fine. Just be up front and honest with people.
DeleteYou know, you can't worry so much about the coach's feelings. Any coach has had skaters choose or not choose her -- so long as you are not playing games about it it should be fine, and frankly if she's the kind of coach you need to worry about hurting her feelings, I wouldn't choose her.
Just my 2 cents -- I'll be interested to hear what others think.
You absolutely can ask multiple coaches for a trial lesson. Make sure any coach is aware you are still looking for a coach, and are working with more than a few. I trialed with 3 coaches the first time I looked for a coach. I had done group lessons with all of them, and was surprised how their private style differed. I only did one lesson per coach, but many skaters will set up a trial month.
DeleteYou have no obligation toward a rink-assigned group coach, though most group coaches do hope their students take privates with them (group is kind of a "loss leader" for many coaches- they get paid, but not well). It is a little more awkward because you've essentially been in private groups, but you need to pick the coach that has the best match for you. This is one of the reasons I actually prefer the rink to move around their group coaches- it doesn't put me in a weird position with them. Of course, the group coaches prefer they get to know students well, in hopes of recruiting.
Jessim, You've hit the nail on the head with the reason this is awkward: I've effectively had private "group" lessons for quite a while now with her. The rink did assign me a few different coaches in my first six months, but at least one of them was really pushy and insistent that I needed to move into privates right away, so once I'd had something different (the coach I've had lately), I requested her again, as I didn't like being so pressured. Perhaps the immediate family crisis will mean I get a new coach for the next class session, and then it will be less awkward for me to broach the question by end of summer. Good advice, though, about being very clear and direct up front about when/whether I start trial lessons with other coaches. Thanks to both you and Gordon for input -- and I'll second his desire for any other ideas people have to offer.
DeleteThis happens all the time-- a coach works with you in class a lot, and then the skater chooses a different coach. And yes, it makes you feel a little hurt, and puzzled, and even embarrassed (damn, didn't know she didn't like me!) but we're all adults here, and we get over it.
DeleteMy daughter and I are still LTS skaters but my daughter definitely has a attachment to one particular coach. We've hired her for privates before the last 2 skate shows and in between the last session. In this case, I think DD would be much more upset by a change of teacher than either the coach or I. I've had several instructors and while they've all had different coaching styles I've gotten along with all of them.
ReplyDeleteThe kids get over the attachment to the old coach insultingly fast. With younger, less competitive kids, it's usually the parent with the attachment issues!
DeleteI was thinking about this after you responded and this last time my daughter didn't. It was 8 weeks of hearing how she didn't want to skate, wanted the old coach, how miserable she was with this coach, etc. I kept telling her that she had to stick out for one session. I'm wondering though if that wasn't more of a conflict with that particular coach because she's worked on group performances for skate shows with other coaches and started out in LTS with a different coach from what she has now. When she first had a different teacher and had to change she wasn't happy at first but was fine by the end of the lesson. This last time though was pretty miserable. Which leads me to a question-can you request a teacher in LTS or is that considered a bad thing? I did write down a request after that 8 weeks but I don't want to be a pushy parent.
DeleteI'm going to be mean and not answer this here, because it's a great blog topic. Short answer-- no, you can't, and not because it's a bad thing, but more because of scheduling issues. There is hope in the long answer, however.
DeleteI have made that request and it was honored. I was very grateful to the SSD and to that coach - who I'm sure was losing potential clients (she knew my skater had a private coach and if you have 8 LTS kids you have an opportunity for new students). The request was honored for about 4 six week sessions (and 2 LTS levels). We still love that coach and the SSD! I don't think that is a common situation. ~Meg
DeleteYes, I wondered about that with the scheduling and so I hadn't thought about doing it until another mother told me that she regularly did it after one of the coaches told her to do so. I didn't really want to say anyone but X yet I don't think we would have continued if she were to have that same coach again. But perhaps a better solution would have been to just have moved ourselves to a different time slot if it came up.
DeleteNew post: http://xan-boni.blogspot.com/2012/05/getting-class-coach-you-want.html
DeleteMy DD is extremely shy so changing coaches would take a lot out of her. Thank God, we love her coach. She was her LTS coach. But I have to say that I respect the other coaches at the rink because they go out of their way to say hi to DD knowing she may not even look at them. DS's coach on the other hand left on a trip and did not come back, did not notify us. He just told DS that he was going on vacation. Now DS won't skate at all. Yes, I am the parent, but I'm parenting traumatized children, so making him skate with another coach is out of the question until he gets over the break up.
ReplyDeleteIn 1983, I skated with a girl who also had had Linda Leaver as her coach. I still remember Robin saying, "Yeah, this skater named Brian is going to be a champion." She predicted it 5 years before Calgary.
ReplyDeleteYou can argue that Linda hit the jackpot.
I saw the Michael Weiss/Audrey Weisiger connection a bit, because I was a part-time teacher at the same rink during Michael's ascent. One thing that may have kept Michael from ever leaving Audrey was bringing on Brian Wright as a choreographer. I think Michael's "Santana" program that Brian did was genious. It also allowed fresh blood to come into the relationship, while keeping the technical side the same.
That's only a guess on my part though.
I would have to agree that Linda got lucky in having Brian show up -- but then she was both smart *and* humble. She was willing to bring in other coaches to help him with things when necessary and from what I can see had a very positive attitude of getting things done. It's a great example of how to coach (and, from Brian's side, how to manage a skater-coach relationship).
DeleteI can't seem to keep a coach.
ReplyDeleteMy first coach I switched because we had different theories on learning progression. We were on ackward terms for awhile, but good terms again now.
My second coach I thought would be long term, but after I was off the ice for 6 months due to injury I came back and thought we'd pick up again, but she told me she was not going to be coaching anymore. She wasn't trying to drop me- as she stopped doing groups and hasn't been at the rink in over a year. She is still a friend of mine, and we go out to eat and stuff.
My third coach and I are doing well, but he will be graduating soon, and I assume moving. Not sure where I go from there...
The "coach hopping" post is on the queue! (Not sure when it will show up--people have had so many good ideas about posts, that the queue has gotten quite long!)
DeleteInteresting discussion - mommytime, good luck with your eventual move to privates!
ReplyDeleteOne more observation about Audrey's team teaching approach, is that at FIA it's really very nice to see that the younger coaches coming up have adopted it. I think it helps with progress, & also when your head coach goes on vacation or is out for some reason it's good to know you have other coaching relationships to rely on.
In addition to benefiting the skaters, I think it also contributes to the friendly atmosphere of the rink. Ask any competitive or serious recreational kid here who their coach is & they'll list 2 or three names. :)
Of course there's still drama from time to time (it's skating after all) but seemingly less than I hear about elsewhere. I don't see the "I'll only talk to/be friends with skaters who use my same coach" attitude at all.